00:00
Yoo, Short Box Nation, Badr here clocking in before we get things started to remind all of you that if you like what you hear in these Patreon preview episodes, but the 10-12 minute snippets aren't enough, well consider checking out the full episodes over on our Patreon page at patreon.com The Shortbox. Now, I know most of you are probably bombarded with requests from other podcasters and content creators to donate and support and join the Patreon, but there's a few things I can guarantee if you join the Shortbox Patreon.
00:28
First of all, you're gonna get bonus episodes, and a lot of them. Secondly, you're gonna get early access to everything we put out, video and podcast-wise, including the commercial free versions. And in some cases, I'll even send you free comics and merch as a thank you for being a member. The other bonus of the Short Box Patreon is that we've got tiers ranging from a dollar a month to five dollars a month. So it costs very little to help us keep this thing going, because as most of you know, making quality content like this on a weekly basis is not cheap.
00:56
If any of this piques your interest, perks, bonus episodes, free merch, but you want to try before you buy in, which I don't blame you. That's a smart move. You can actually sign up for a free seven day trial at patreon.com slash a short box. Look, sign up, give it a try. Listen as many bonus episodes, watch all the extra videos and then cancel if it's not your thing. It's all good. No hard feelings. But I got a feeling that once you get a taste of what our patrons enjoy on the regular, you'll want to stick around a while.
01:24
Patreon.com slash the short box is the link or you can just look for the link in this episode show notes That's right. Just scroll down a little bit There's a whole bunch of great links in the show notes and yeah check it out and with that let's start the show
01:39
Ladies and gentlemen, I present to you the short box pie cast.
01:46
Nah, you're the most of dude yo, after. Yo, check this shit out. You're about to drop that comic book talk show that brings you the best. Let's bring in the short box, great, again.
01:59
The Short Box Podcast is recorded live from Jacksonville, Florida.
02:08
given the listeners the old switcheroo. Why's that? Greg just dropped out. Because Greg just dropped out. What if there's someone that's like, I only came for Greg? Yeah, sorry about you. All right, if you are listening to this after this week's main episode, Greg had to leave to go record an episode of the first issue club. But he did share a sentiment about this particular topic that we'll share here in a second. I'm going to recap this story.
02:37
as best as I can and as quickly as I can. Because I have a feeling everyone that is in the know when it comes to comics and keeps up to date with the news and what happens is probably aware of this. But earlier this month, artist Andrea Sorrentino, Andrea Sorrentino was accused of using AI artwork for an issue of Batman, Batman number 143 specifically, written by Chip Sadarsky.
03:05
illustrated by Andreas Sorrentino. It was, I'm trying to find the name of the individual. Okay, so yeah, James Leach, writer and designer James Leach got on Twitter and publicly started questioning whether Andreas Sorrentino was using AI in this particular issue of Batman. I believe that the story goes that he was reading this particular series, noticed that this, I think he's on this like a three issue stretch, Andreas Sorrentino.
03:32
noticed there was some discrepancies in some of the art, the panels, the way it looked. And this particular thread that he started, he was sharing, I mean, he kind of showed up with like his homework, right? He had panels, very detailed description. I think he was coming at it from a good place. It wasn't like, hey, he's a piece of shit, like using AI. It was, hey, I have a feeling. Here's my evidence. What do you guys think?
03:57
It's yeah, it was more of just kind of open a discussion. Yeah, about we need to say. Well, here's the thing before we get into it deeply. These publishers, they're going to try their best to experiment with this in some way. So it is up to us fans and people who buy these things. We have to be vigilant for this. Like we have to keep an eye out because they will try as it gets as we move on. It will get better. So we have to be the ones to point out when it's when it's present. Yeah, that's a good point.
04:24
Okay, and I'm not, I won't lie to you, I'm not familiar with James Leach. Was anyone familiar with him prior? Okay. My understanding is that he's a writer, a designer. I believe he probably works in comics. I probably should have looked into that a little more. I'm just going, this was my, probably for a lot of people, their first introduction to this guy. So, but I did, I did, I do remember seeing this go live, you know, at the time, uh, which this was posted on March 10th, this particular thread. And some of the things he's talking about is, Hey, there's a lot of
04:53
telltale signs of AI being used in this particular issue of Batman, including quote, strange anatomy errors a human is unlikely to make such as a points to Joker having some weird hands wandering. Band name called it. I'm calling shotgun. Oh, wondering, wondering nipples. I'm going to take broken horny. Then if you take a wondering nipple, I'm taking broken horny. He also pointed out, I'm just kind of paraphrasing from this article I'm reading. This is from CBR.
05:22
that had reported on it, wrote up about it, but also a general lack of similar artworks in Sorrentino's other various artworks. It just, for the most part, it looked like AI. It just didn't feel right. It also didn't match some of these other artworks. Yeah, there was some repetition, like shape repetition, some JPEG artifacts, some pixelization. So he really did his... He really put in the detail. It doesn't look like anything Sorrentino has ever done before. If you've read Gideon Falls, or if you've read... Yeah.
05:52
in my opinion, already has a pretty unique style. It does sometimes feel like a, he's strictly digital, right? Maybe not strictly, but primarily digital. And it's very obvious it's digital. The style just, it's gotta look to it. I think if you know, you know kind of deal. So Leach shares all of this evidence, these panels, and the feedback was,
06:20
I think for the most part, everyone on this particular thread was agreeing with them. Hey, yeah, there is a lot of telltale signs this is AI. I don't know if Andreas Serrentino directly commented or responded. That's going to be my question. The only thing I could find, which is kind of crazy that it's March 20th that we're recording this, I couldn't find a direct response. The only thing I could find was that Andreas Serrentino on his Instagram, I think unrelated, not as a response, had shared a video of a sped up...
06:49
a progress pic of one of the panels that David Leitch mentions in The Thread, which is a joker. He's submerged in water, half of his face is coming out. I think in Leitch's... I'm sorry, I keep saying David, but James Leitch. In The Thread, James Leitch is like, hey, this particular panel here, there's this weird blotch of paint that isn't consistent with the other pieces of artwork in the book.
07:19
shares the process, his process video of drawing that. And so you know what I'm saying? It's like, oh, I'm seeing it being made right in front of me. So you've got Andrea Sorrentino who posts that. I think it's unrelated. It's just like coincidental weird timing. And then DC's official response, I believe, is, hey, we're going to investigate this, look into this. And I believe, when did this article, they wrote this article.
07:44
March 11th. That's March 11th. There's another one, Bleeding Cool also wrote about this as well and they mentioned, and their article came out, oh, Saturday, March 23rd. So this one's a little more recent. And the Bleeding Cool article, which is written by, I think it's probably Rich Johnson. Probably. Yeah, Rich Johnson. He mentions that DC hadn't followed up or said anything else about the matter besides the initial, hey, we're gonna be looking into this.
08:14
So obviously, whether Andreas Sorrentino did it or not, I think it's still up in the air. I think James Leach has made a compelling case for it using evidence and what he feels. The Andreas Sorrentino part in his video makes it a little muddy to me. I don't know if I care to put blame on it. I think what it really does, I think the main focus should be the conversation around.
08:40
AI and comics and that is what this particular thread spark was like continuous and countless like spin off threads and conversations about AI and comics. And I know Greg in the first issue club podcast did speak about this the week that it happened and Greg jokingly as he left left here to go record his other show. What did he say? He said first issue clubs official stance when it comes to AI and comics is AI and comics. I think I'm probably paraphrasing, but that's the spirit of it there.
09:10
And what I guess I want to bring up with you two is your thoughts on AI and comics and more so, is it safe to say that everyone here is just is anti AI and comics and you would probably never buy a book that was made using AI? I'm not gonna say that. No, okay. No. What do you think about the whole situation? Well, here's- Like if you like if it was if it was if he did end up using AI for this particular issue like
09:39
Does it bother you? Like, what are your thoughts on it? Here's the thing we get into when we are making digital arts. Like the AI, as far as it being used to take away jobs and not pay creatives properly, 100% against that. But you have to look at this is basically, it's just going to keep coming. It's not going to stop. So what the...
10:08
And like every technological invention over the years, over art history, from the camera to the computer, artists have to adjust and react to it. So AI is gonna be a tool. So what we're saying here is we're using, like I said, he probably used AI for reference, like Alex Ross used photographs for reference. And you can treat it like that and look at it like that. And as an artist, use it as a tool, as a reference.
10:34
And especially in the comic industries to get this shit done on time. I'm not going to draw the city. I'll just put a picture and Xerox it and put it behind there. I'm not, I can't draw all these buildings. So I'm looking at it from that perspective saying like, you can't, you can't hold this damn up, you know, it's going to overflow, but, but what we have to do is find out how now, how does this work like as far as commerce, as far as jobs, as far as like, cause this is happening in the film industry as well, like
11:03
Like we thought we're building machines to do like hard labor, but we're doing, or these machines are taking creative jobs. So it's just very weird. It's like, I thought they were supposed to be lifting heavy shit, but they're, they're kind of going that, but it can be used as a tool. And if it's treated as a tool, then that's one thing. But if it's treated as, I'm still team human guys, I don't want it replacing things, but as far as I understand how the technology works, it's
11:32
It's basically gathering existing things and kind of forming what your prompts are in a dumbed down version. Now, do you feel any way as an artist, as someone that, you know, creates original stuff that your artwork could potentially be training AI or AI could potentially lift your style and artwork to spit out an image and someone else could be using that, you know, for their own gain or, you know? That's just...
12:02
I gotta live with it. I mean, it's, you know, it's, it's kind of like a more advanced thing of someone just take looking at my style and just copying it or me like, Oh, I like the way Bruce Tim does this. I'll take some of that. The way artists take things from artists that they like. But in this, but since we, since it's this kind of artificial form, we were like, really, there's this anger about it, but it's just going to be, you have to kind of look at it as this, like another tool.
12:31
that the artist can use to, you know, enhance their own artwork or to get ideas of like, okay, I'm going to do a painting, but let me see. Instead of drawing a thousand thumbnails or sketches, you can like, okay, let me do the pop pop pop pop. Okay, I'm going to do that and then I can make a big painting or whatever. But once we get into this digital art, you know, it's like, now it's going to be more nebulous and like confusing. Like, what's what?
12:56
But that's just kind of the price of technology. Like, you know, when the camera came out, like a lot of painters lost jobs, because now I can just photograph this person. So what happens is we have a reactionary movements like impressionism and different things. So what I'm kind of excited about is seeing how we react. What art is going to be the reaction to this new technology, because that's the most interesting things to me. But I kind of have to look at it.
13:23
is in my youth fighting technology over the years. It's a losing battle. It's just going to keep getting better. It's going to be more advanced. There's no real, unfortunately, moral compass when it comes to this stuff. This is something that we have to kind of figure out how to live with it and how to work with it, because it's just going to keep coming. It's not going to stop until Skynet kills us all. So. Until it eventually smartens up and kills us. Yeah. So it's, yeah, mastermold. It's like, just going to kill us. But do you think there's a clear moral line?
13:52
There you have it short box nation, that's the end of the show. Thank you for hanging out, thanks for being here, and a special shout out if you made it this far. If you enjoyed this episode and you have some thoughts or comments that you want to share with us, write us at thes And if you really liked this episode, help us spread the word, share this episode with a friend or someone you know that loves comics as much as we do.
14:20
And don't forget to leave us a five star rating and review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify or wherever you get your podcast. It takes two minutes tops and it would mean the world to us. So leave us a review. Now, if you want more content like bonus episodes or perks like early access and commercial free episodes, and in some cases, free comic books, consider joining our Patreon community at patreon.com slash the short box. It's an easy and very affordable way to support the show and get rewarded for being a fan.
14:49
Once again, sign up at patreon.com slash the short box. Speaking of our Patreon community, I want to give a big shout out to our current members, including Adam Chaitani, Tony Aupi, RC Gamet, Blake Simone, Blythe Brumleaf, Bo Evers, Brian Brumleaf, Chad Lannenberger, Chris Hacker, Chris Jinx, David Morales, Triple D Mystic, Dominique Jackson, Errol White, Edbot 5000, Generation Jaguar, Greg Hopkins, Greg Ligtig, Henry Hernandez, Hershel.
15:18
Hydrus96 aka Mac J. Sinner, Jeff Frimmett, Jerome Cabanatan, Joshua Miller, Justin McCoy, Kara Reichardt, Cassie Whitley, Corey Torteson, Matt Godwin, Amanda Marin, Nick Wagner, Podcasters Assemble, Steven Gamet, T-Mix, The Wait For It Podcast, Thomas Pandich, Thurian, Trey Namo, Walter Gantt, Warren Evans, and Zach Armour. Thanks again to everyone that listens and supports the show. Be sure to come back next week for a new episode.
15:46
And most importantly, take care of yourselves, read a good comic, and continue to make mine and yours short box. I'll catch you soon.
